Top 10 reasons D&D4E will be the worst RPG ever
Posted by Yax on November 28, 2007
Online tools
I remember the character generator software that was included in the 3.0 PHB. Enough said.
WotC’s best promotional effort is a slideshow?
Even Commodore did better when they launched Amiga 22 years ago.
The rules are dumbed down
Streamlined mechanics is the official term, but I’m skeptical.
Constant leveling takes away from roleplaying and backstory
30 levels? How many do we really need? The constant leveling moves the focus of the game from roleplaying and character development to uber-crunchy characters. And how many of us have actually played games from level 1 to 20 in the past? Probably not many.
Character will have defined roles
What about solo adventures or 2 characters sessions?
New books
It’s going to make a small dent in my monthly budget, and I’m probably going to shell out 10$ for Gleemax.
Gleemax
First of all, what the hell does Gleemax mean? It’s a horrible name. They still have a few months to make the concept work. So far I am non-plussed by Wizards new community site. As long as the website color scheme isn’t some shade of sickly green, I’ll be alright.
Online tools - part II
How much effort will go into making the online tools fit the game - or worse, make the game fit the online tools - and will the tools be flexible enough to allow for house rules?
D&D minis
I’m not a D&D minis player but I hear they’re changing the rules of the strategy game too and collectors are somewhat getting screwed.
Less diversity
After years of running 3.0 and 3.5, there’s an endless array of prestige classes to choose from and dungeon masters have a good feel for what’s balanced. 4th edition won’t offer as many choices - at least for a while.
What are you dreading in D&D 4E?
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‘Gleemax’ is the name of the supposed creature that controls the ‘Magic: the Gathering’ developers.
Not sure why they decided to make it into a website. But if it would actually *work* and you could access *anything* other than getting ‘access denied’ and ‘page not found’ errors that’d be great.
A side note: many users of the WotC forums have already fled the place in terror after they amended their terms of use to say ‘we own anything you post on here’.
I didn’t say anything about the forum giving an access denied because I thought I had forgotten my password or something. I’m glad to know that I’m not just incompetent.
Gleemax is their online forums… they took the D&D forums, the MTG forums, and everything else they had going and smashed into one big mess called ‘Gleemax’ (stupid name!)
Right now, D&D Insider is part of Gleemax and its all free (for now). Eventually, down the road, D&D Insider is going to be ‘premium’ content (means you gotta pay monthly fee) and Gleemax will still have the freebie stuff.
Everything that used to be in the Dragon and Dungeon magazines will now be offered via D&D Insider. From what I’ve seen so far, it really won’t be worth it. So far their monthly ‘articles’ have been a half page of fluff, no crunch whatsoever…. granted there’s only so much they can do until the new ruleset officially comes out, unless they wanna re-hash 3.X material…
Thanks for clearing that up. I was lumping Gleemax and D&D Insider together - which isn’t exactly how it is.
I was around back when everyone was dreading the switch from 2nd edition to 3rd. There was the usual anxiety about a new system, and the usual concerns about ‘cashing in’ on revising a lot of the old material.
That doesn’t even compare to the worry about 4E. I think a lot of people are going to be sticking with 3.x or moving to another game system. The question is: how far will the 4E sales fall?
I doubt the 4E sales will fall. I actually think that 4E will more than make up for the lost 3.X Christmas sales.
I played my first D&D game just before 2e was released so I’ve played all three (and a half) version and so far D&D got better with every major release.
Is the extra anxiety and bad press generated by a more active, open community (thank you internet)? Or should we be legitimately worried that WOTC is slaughtering a great game?
We’ll see.
I am still ho-hum about 4E. The online aspects intrigue me, but honestly, WotC is YEARS behind on this stuff and it’s sad we are waiting for a new edition to launch before we get proper online support.
I firmly believe 4E is not going to revive much in the D&D scene without some major shifts in WotC’s style and marketing. They are struggling to sell these concepts to their core base, which is a troubling sign in my book.
Are you serious!!!
All of your issues with D&D 4th Edition have been hashed to endless minutia on the WOTC/Gleemax Site.
All of the info boils down to these two points:
Everyone hopes D&D 4th Edition will be good, signs point to yes, but we will wait and see.
The second point is that what they did to Dragon and Dungeon completely blows. Unless they seriously improve D&Di no one is going to pay for it. But, they say they are still having problems with it and when it launches for real it will be amazing. Once again we will wait and see.
For all your nay saying…there are two concepts you should keep in mind. You don’t have to play 4th Edition, there is plenty of stuff out there for 3.5.
Also, how is your complaining on this sight making anything better. At least if you complain at WOTC you have a chance of someone at WOTC caring, this web sight to me is a place for creativity and shared D&D DMing ideas. For that purpose its one of my favorite sites.
Just complaining about the possible future of D&D is just a waste of pixels.
Finally, don’t forget that everyone at WOTC is a gamer and they play D&D, they also like the game. They are some of the most talented minds in gaming. They are not going to ruin what they love. Will i be perfect…Are you perfect?
Oh! I think I pissed someone off! :)
Feel free to read: “Top 10 reasons D&D4E will be the best RPG ever!”
Yeah, I thought this particular thread was just a couple of friends talking about the weather - we know we’re not going to be able to change anything, we just like to talk.
I am excited about 4th ed. I personally will wait 6 - 12 months before buying anything, waiting to see what amendments are made. I will continue playing 3.5 for years. I have a lot of time and characters invested in it.
But I hope that 4th ed will be easier and streamlined. I will be running a RPG club for High School students from next year and anything to make it easier to introduce will be very much appreciated. At the same time, I have few troubles teaching 3.5 to newbies.
Look up non-plussed in the dictionary.
I looked it up and it’s not what I meant apparently. real definition:
bewildered, completely puzzled.
Awesome Yax! You’ve taken a Blog and turned it into a Forum. Kudos and great topics btw.
I’m with Robert. Its wonderful when great minds get together and discuss points of view. As for changing stuff, he’s probably right. However, I’m betting that, if WOTC really plans to compete in the online marketplace and maintain its place among the ever increasing number of gaming systems around, they have people reading stuff far beyond their Gleemax forums. Its really important to do market research when spinning off such enormous endeavors. To be successful, Gleemax, D&D Insider, & 4E are going to need to take a close look at what’s out there and do their best to learn from it.
I’m hopeful, but like many I’ll wait and see.
Good point, dberg, I hope that they are reading far and wide. I imagine that like any DM with a computer and an internet connection they do read widely, and the also follow links from site to site. I’d think that with the number of links I’ve seen to DungeonMastering, they are reading this right now.
Spooky, huh?
I feel that I should place the metal colander back on my head to protect me from the spy satellites. ;-)
oh - and I think you should have looked up Double Un-Plussed in the Orwellian dictionary.
I’d like to take this time to recommend Silhouette and World of Darkness. Because they’re better. And don’t apples-to-oranges me, you know full well I’m talking about mechanics, and that each of you crank out new gameworlds every few months.
I know of at least 1 WotC employee who reads this blog! :)
actually, correction: Gleemax is an incredible name, though somewhat of a inside-joke if you don’t know what the background/history is of the all-powerful Gleemax. The product (the website) on the other hand, is doomed to failure: gamers look for a concentration of people who play the game they’re specifically interested in. By nature, gamers tend to be internet loners, thus they aren’t looking for fellow gamer camraderie, they’re looking for how to make that Barb/rogue multiclasser work, or how to unlock the unholy demon-sword in some MMORPG (pronounced Mo-More-p’guh).
Of course there are exceptions, but on the whole, if you’re a gamer, and you’re on the internet, you’re looking for help on what game you would normally be playing.
I’m thouroughly convinced that, while people may argue that yes, indeed, the developers do love the game and don’t want to screw it up, it is also their job, their bread on the table. consequently, we’re (my play group) going to play with what we’ve got now, and wait for 4.5 to come out.
[...] These books reek of fluffy goodness about where fiends come from and what are their agenda. While I prefer the near-perfect synergy of Crunch and Fluff of FC I, I absolutely loved reading about Asmodeus’ schemes in FCII and I am actually looking forward to read about his ascend to godhood in 4e (which incidentally, some people seem unable to decide if it will rock or suck). [...]
@Sylvain:
Great comments. I agree with the internet gamer / loner thing.
I’m not sure inside jokes are great names for corporate products though.
“or how to unlock the unholy demon-sword in some MMORPG (pronounced Mo-More-p’guh).”
Ahh Great MMORPG lies dreaming awaiting the time of awakening when the stars are right…
No, wait… that was CTHULHU…. wrong Mythos Monster…
[...] in the RPG fans’ pool this week. He posted another dual piece on the perceived pros and cons of [...]
D&D (and all other tabletop RPGs) are about getting around the table with friends. If 4e makes that better, then I’ll buy the books and be happy. If it doesn’t, I’ll just continue the 3.5 campaign I’ve been running for 4 years (click my name to see our website).
Heck, I’m getting more and more fed up with D&D the older I get. I’m drifting toward the story based games and away from the dice rolling. I’d rather just sit with friends and come up a story than trying to describe “you just lost 7 hit points”
“Worse marketing than Commodore”. That’s harsh!
Fascinating.
I am recently returned to gaming and am playing with the 2ed Rules. Simply because that is what I have. I wasn’t going to run out and buy 3.x rules with a new edition’s release in the pipeline. I did pre-order the 4e stuff.
Reason 1: the pre-order prize for all 3 books is cheaper than I am going to find them for later. If I delay, what is probably going to be inevitable, I will end up paying a lot more.
Reason 2: I don’t think rules make the game. I can’t imagine that a rule about leveling is going to take away from character development. In fact, if the combat rules are simplified…..woo hoo! Combat is, and always has been, a logistics nightmare. So much so that I my sessions would become split: story session and combat sessions.
There are some things that make me a little worried about the new 4e stuff.
First worry: are the modules all going to be hardbound and as I result more expensive? I don’t buy a lot of modules but I wanted to buy one with me 4e stuff….the price seems a bit high.
Second worry: If I don’t want to pay the monthly fee to the online content am I going to feel like I am missing something? Possibly another worry, is the online content going to work with “other” computer operating systems?
Third worry; Miniatures may be necessary increasing the cost of game play.
Fourth worry: the rules don’t include enough to cover non-combat situations. This is the thing I have heard the most in people’s complaints. The game is simply to WoWified.
To sum it up I worry that I learn an ~$70 lesson about pre-ordering game product.
Love the site.
Well I feel 4e isn’t going to be great either…
I’m doing the Alpha play-test for the Pathfinder RPG over at Paizo.com. It’s what 4e SHOULD be, backwards compatible and the Alpha and future Beta PDF downloads are FREE. Paizo has already taken PLAYER feedback and made a v1.1, incorporating many of our responses to broken mechanics.
THERE MAKING GNOMES INTO MONSTERS!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOO
i will never make any of my campaign gnomes monsters. but i betcha it will be the same as with the elves in the 3.5 monster manual with all the sub races and what not.
[...] folks are skeptical, I get it. Some folks are convinced 4E will be the worst game ever. But, others think it will be the best game ever. I get that some folks think of WotC as the [...]
i’ve only been RPing for about 2 years… done some white wolf, some vampire, and ALOT of D&D
Played 2.0…
Played 3.5…
But it seems to me 4.0 is making all the classes what they are in wow… and frankly… i think wiz is trying to get the vet players out of D&D… and it pisses me off
I love TSR. As far as I am concerned Wizards fucked it all up! They changed it from a role playing game with SOME minis to a minis game with SOME role playing. Fuck every thing after 2nd edition.
Wait a minute. Originally D&D was a miniatures game with some role-playing tacked on.
We have come full circle.
There is nothing in 4th Ed that forces you to use miniatures anymore than 3.5 or even Basic Edition from 30 years ago. As for 4E degrading the story line. I have to say that after playing the H1 adventure just released last week, I find that the more streamlined battles that you can fit MORE roleplaying and story into each night of gaming than before.
We usually end up with about 2 battles being fought over an 6-8 hour session. However, with 4e we easily fit in 3 battles and were able to move the storyline along that much faster as well.
I also thought that the battles were much more interesting (especially for 1st level characters) than in previous editions. Our battles were flowing with lots of movement. With the new abilities we had, there was a real sense that you had to make your actions count strategically for the group.
I still have concerns. After all, I’ve only played 4e for about 6 hours, but my first impression was that the game makes combat more fun and faster, thus giving us more time and ability to sink our teeth into character development and story line. I just hope it holds up that way going forward.
You’ve got to be struggling to hate it if those are your best reasons.
I’ve played dnd since 1st ed (and other RPG’s - Whitewolf storytelling especially) DM’ing, playing and creating my own worlds, customized rule systems/ supplement rule systems.
I’ve also played WoW extensively for the past few years and feel that experiencing our game in an MMORPG setting really is eye-opening; there are tons of lessons I’ve learned from it and as a result developed a full set of house rules based on those lessons.
4E sounds alot like what my solutions and potentially alot better in many ways (though I still hope my dynamic combat system is better than theirs ;)
Book-keeping and note-keeping has always been the bane of new players and of bringing in casuals or friends who just want to join in… and hey, if the rules being easier to understand and manage helps DM’s gather groups more easily and entice people who wouldn’t normally cope with the complexities all the better.
Tabletop RPG’s face serious competition just to remain relevant with the gloss of online games.
Making them more playable doesn’t just help pnp players like us but the gaming industry as a whole - pnp games are where people learn real role playing - the values and challenges of experiencing situations and cultural/social roles they’d never even consider otherwise, and innately begin to understand game theory.
The guys at WoTC are doing their level best to keep gaming in the hands of the people (rather than letting big companies roll us into subscriptions purely as players of cliche settings).
If you don’t like all the books, don’t buy them or just grab the DMG & PHB and make up the rest yourself.
long live the revolution ;)
Your reason for why 4th edition is going to be good is retarded…
WIZARDS IS MAKING D&D MORE LIKE WOW!!
and frankly after playing wow…
i know that wow is the worst thing to ever have happend to RPGs
How dare blizzard even call that piece of shit an rpg
all you do in wow is the same bullshit till you hit level one million or what the fuck ever then you go raid to get all you “epic class” bullshit thats a fucking carbon copy of every other rogue/paladin or what ever the fuck you play…
ya know what ?
i love D&D BECAUSE of the complexity…
and if you can’t keep up with your characters inventory, or abilities then you dont deserve them…
’nuff said
Uhm? You might try NOT swearing every other sentence.
If WotC is dumbing down D&D they’re obviously aiming for trolling morons like you.
I have looked at the rules, and I feel that roleplayers have been left out in the wind.
Some of the concepts are really nice, but its clear that it is menant to appeal to Online Gamers and it is primarily about combat, and less about roleplaying.
I love world of warcraft, and as a computer programmer myself, I respect them greatly, HOWEVER, they are not the competition with roleplaying games, and they shouldnt be the target audience. I love my X-Box 360 as well. Neither take the place for an entertaining pen and paper game. And pen and paper doesnt take their place either.
No matter how good a onlne game is, our creativity always trumps it from a storytelling aspect. Stifle said creativity, on the other hand, and a pen and paper game is plain worthless. Its important that people understand this. They are DIFFERENT forms of entertainment, and while you can learn from them to make each one better, they arent really the competition. In fact, in some ways they are complementary. In all my years of gaming, I have yet to meet a player who says ‘Im not going to pen and paper any more, im going to play computer games’. I think it might seem thay way, but people who would try either a paper or computer game has grown massively over the last 20 years, so I think if anything, computer games have helped improve D&D’s popularity. If anything they have made it more acceptable. Still, its important to understand how they are different forms of entertainment.
Its obvious that this is going back to “Dungeon Crawl”. Some things like auto healing after one night of rest. Only getting action points after going through two combats without resting, etc.. All of these make great elements of a fast paced video game.
Its a little disheartening really, because a lot of concepts such as the new healing system make lots of sense, but this really is a lot of step backward. When D&D first came out, it was unique, and its ok that there was only a little improvement over miniature wargaming, as its what it came out of. Over time, people realized more and more roleplaying and storytelling became involved. (At one point 2e, i believe, there used to be an intro to roleplaying and what it meant to tell a great story in the PHB… i notice that section has slowly been shrinking). Even though its certainly the most well known, and in some ways the most popular, there is a reason D&D is in some ways the joke system for many roleplayers. Ive always defended it as just a system, but this is just too much.
I like the way not everything is a spell, and i like some of the actions, but as a whole, this is a tep backwards.
I did not feel that way about 3.0, or 3.5
Its just disheartening, but I suppose the target audience has changed. Maybe Ill play another game that understands the concept of roleplaying better. Or stick to 3.5
I still say wizards FUCKED IT ALL UP. I grew up on first and secind edition. I really dont think wizards is doing any good with d & d. they need to get in touch with it’s roots. Why make a table top version of WoW? The games just don’t feel the same when playing 3, 3.5 or any thing after 2nd for that matter. D & D isn’t what it used to be and all you people who think 4th edition is so great obviously have never played a real session. I end this rant with how it started, Wizards FUCKED IT ALL UP!! If any one disagrees my email is mybabyjen@hotmail.com. I’d love to hear why.
Kevin,
If you want anyone to take you seriously I’d suggest two things….
1) Stop swearing… especially in ALLCAPS.
2) Try spelling your words correctly. Or at least use a spell checker.
“and all you people who think 4th edition is so great obviously have never played a real session”
Eric Morgan, local game store owner/manager and long-time gamer, as well as one of the best DM’s I know posted this to his shop’s website.
“We are gearing up for D&D! This revision has been about 8 years in the making. The return of Dungeons & Dragons in it’s fourth incarnation has created quite a buzz here @ Critical Effect. And rightly so. This new edition simplifies combat and creates an environment that is a bit more dramatic and lends itself to better role-playing. It seems much easier to DM and personally I am extremely excited about this release. I have not been giddy about D&D since the release of the 2nd Ed. AD&D rules book!”
http://www.criticaleffectgames.com/
So obviously he’s never played a ‘real’ session…. after having run AD&D 2nd edition, D&D 3.0/3.5, Iron Kingdoms, Hackmaster, etc…
D&D 4th Edition, OR…
…How Many Times Can We Re-Invent The Wheel, brought to you by Wizards of the Cash! Man, what a scam! AD&D (aka v2.0) sucked! v3.0/3.5 is great and if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
Besides, think about the timeline here: The OG D&D came out in, what? 1974? Then though the early 80’s and 90’s it was AD&D. Now we’ve had v3.5 for 5 short years and Wizards has already cooked up some new edition (which, from what I’ve seen so far, totally blows) so we all can run out and buy the exact same library of books…again….but this time with a 4th Ed. cover? Yeah, right!
I think the game is searching for a brand identity ……
Its concept is quite stale
Dice hamster has a good point. I prefer second edition, but still agree. Why fix whats not broke? I am not spending 35 dollers for the same thing I already have. And besides what ever they are doing new I can probably find on the internet. The thing I hear people talking about the most most is the simplified battle system, so why didn’t wizards just make a supplement for that? They want your money. Screw wizards. TSR for ever.
One important thing to remember: TSR was just as bad about moneygrabs as wizards is. They didn’t, however, see fit to gut an entire system in order to make it more ‘mainstream’
Thank you. TSR may have been money hungry but they did it right. You didn’t need minis for their editions, but when I’m playin 3.5 or what ever I feel like the minis are a must. Which just leaves me to believe that wizards wants your money more. If you HAVE TO use minis then how can you role play on the fly? What about the battle grids? what ever happened to the generic battle grids? I personally use a rather large sheet of poster that I drew a grid on then laminated and some dry erase markers. It’s just easier that way for when I do use minis.
“TSR may have been money hungry but they did it right.”
How? By pushing more and more books in the hopes that someone might buy them? AD&D 2nd Edition? AD&D 2.5? Player’s Options? Monstrous Compendium? Complete Fighters/Thief’s/Wizard’s/Cleric’s/Ranger’s/Paladin’s/etc Handbook? Complete Book of Elves/Dwarves/Gnomes/Halflings/Orc/Goblins/Etc?
They are now, what they have always been…. a publishing company. They make money by publishing books. If you don’t want to buy the books they are currently publishing, they don’t… but please stop deluding yourself.
Deluding myself? I guess my main problem is like I said before, they tuned it into a game that focuses on the minis aspect of the game instead of making the main focus on the role playing itself
I think you meant ‘turned’ instead of ‘tuned’… but perhaps tuned is a good word for the situation.
They are competing in the market place against all the other RPG companies. They looked at D&D and decided instead of trying to be generic or universal, they focused the game on what it did well and cut out all the things other game systems did better. Why try to compete where you are weak?
You keep harping on the minis aspect of D&D. The game has always included the miniatures, just there were optional rules for those who didn’t want to use them. D&D was originally a minis game with the roleplaying rules built on top of that. With this edition the cleared some of the role-playing clutter in order to let the basic game shine through.
WotC doesn’t send out hit squads if you decide to play without the minis. It’s always been this way, nothing in this edition changed that fact. The minis make it cleaner and clearer, they are a GOOD thing… ;)
I did mean turned, but tuned does work well there. Thanks for the correction. Don’t get me wrong, I use minis, as a matter a fact I have a shit load of ‘em. It’s just that I find my self, as the dm of all my friends (when did that happen?) Sitting around the table and focusing mostly on the role playing and the discriptive aspect of the game and using the minis mostly for the battles, pub scenes, and of course the dungeon crawling. I use a blank 28×36 laminated grid that I made, and if i draw every forrest they travel through or every town they are in it would just take to much time out the session. I just find it easier to show them the town on the graph papper that i drew it on. “This is where you are, the shop you need to go to is accross the street here.
Now over the last couple years I have been pushed to use those minis I have more and more when ever I run a 3 or a 3.5., But not so much when running 2 or 2.5. I know the minis have always been there, I own the original dungeons and dragons game(the box set with zanzars dungeon as the starter adventure) I just don’t like feeling like I have to use them, and wizards gives me that feeling.
I was told that the only real good thing about 4.0 is the new battle system. I have been told that they made it a lot more simple. How did they make it simpler? I would like to know so maybe i can encorperate it into my next session.
“and all you people who think 4th edition is so great obviously have never played a real session” It just makes me mad that they came out with 3.5 in 03 and already have a new system out? It’s only been 5 years That makes me think they are insecure with their own system, they didn’t really give 3.5 a chance to flourish. Over the last couple weeks my dislike of wizards has died down a bit as I have been studying my 3.5 more closly, but i still prefer TSR.
THE ONLY WAY TO IMPROVE DND IS TO GO BACK TO ADND.
I have a question: If AD&D was so great, why then did I never see anyone playing it as written? Every campaign I played in, the DM had house rules, often times a great many house rules. If the system was so great, why then did nobody play it ‘properly’?
Granted I’ve only experienced a minute fraction of all the AD&D games that were played… but I can recall at least a dozen different games/campaigns. Now, I don’t know the reasoning behind what other people set up as house rules, when I ran the game there were things that seemed broken or unrealistic. Other things just seemd kinda bland, so I used house rules to spice up… or to experiment with.
House Rules were and are a staple of D&D. No matter who’s game I’ve played or what incarnation of the game. I’ve been aound D&D for over 30 years now and I can tell you 3rd edition on its own was the best since AD&D, because it allowed for that flavor again. It was something inherently cool about getting a new DM and him laying down his house rules.
You see gamers come in a few breeds:
The Veteran- He’s the guy whose been doing it and doing it well. He logged more D&D hours then some of you have been alive. He’s the guy that knows the pages to DMG and PHB as needed. He’s creative, innovative and highly adaptable…he still gaming because he enjoys the social aspects as well as the stroy and creative proccess.
The Second Ager: These are the kids who were introduced to D&D via second edition. They like alot of rules, charts and loved to Min/Max.They like to roll he dice and even when they roll a 1 or a 2 they can tell you why they hit. We also loving refer to them as the Rules Lawyer.
The Post Modern Player: These are the droves of mindless button masher, who need everything spoon fed to them. They coudn’t imagine there way out of a wet paper bag. If some one isn’t putting in a glossy picture or CGI graphic, then they can’t get it.
I bought 4th edition and guess what? i got House Rule, not because they are needed…cause I could play the game as is, but I think its better my way. That why house rules exsist, not because one ganes better or worse the las one
Well, I’m gonna throw down my whole thing on the switch, and it all boils down to this, me and my group are comfortable with 3.5. Its that simple. We own a bunch (prolly more like an ass-load and a half) of 3.5 books, we’re used to the system, and we have fun with it. We don’t have any real reason to change unless we’re gonna say “OMG NEW EDITION!” and we’re just not like that. Hell, I prolly would have stuck with ADND had it not been for the people I hung out with in high school having been pushed into 3.0 by their former gaming groups.
Thats all, and thats my point. Whether it rocks or it blows, or just floating in the middle, 3.5 works for me, and I don’t see a real reason to change. (We can always convert stuff to 3.5 if new awesome ideas appear.)
The way I feel is that the game would not be the same if no one did house rules. But it does seem to me that every one i have ever met who role plays (including my self) takes a system and trys to make it their own. Which leads to a lot more fun in my opinion. Now I do not think it was needed when they gutted 3.5 and came out with a new edition.
And for the record AD&D is the best system in my opinion. Now alot of you may not feel that way, and thats fine. To each their own. I just prefer it because that is where I started and that is where i will ……stop? I have no problem with
trying out new things when it comes to role playing, but why did we need a new system?
Maybe it is not a bad thing though, Since the release of 4th edition every one I know is digging out their AD&D books and materials and have been role playing alot more just in spite of 4th edition. I mean look at how many role players it woke up.
I recently converted my 3.5 Newbie DnD game over to 4th ed. We had our first session just today (Thurs).
I’m not convinced that DnD4 will be the ‘Worst RPG Ever!’ It’ll take a lot for WotC to hit that low. I’ve got the Synnibarr RPG… and that is one I consider the worst ever.
I do think DnD 3.5 needed a tuneup. I’ll admit that 4th ed is kinda like taking your car in for a tuneup only to discover the mechanic completely replaced the engine and transmission. Its not what I would have asked for, but now that I’m actually digging into the 4th ed rules, they aren’t that bad.
My main gripe about the 4E PHB is the organization of the powers. If you know which class and level a power belongs to then great. If you only know the name…. good luck trying to find it quickly. (fortunately my PCs are only 1st level, so this isn’t a problem yet)
And the default 4E char sheet sucks. Need LOTS more room to fill in details. All of my players needed an extra sheet of paper just to write out the details of their powers, so that they wouldn’t have to keep looking them up in the middle of play. Since we only had the one PHB (durn missing player!) we did a lot of passing the book back and forth.
Hows the battle system? How did they simplify it?
I’m gonna wait until after the 2nd session to answer that question. 1st session was just a lil too disorganized. Gotta give the players (and the GM) some time to get used to the new rules and what all the characters can do.
We did find one oddity in the rules. If you’re going to take an extended rest, burn off your healing surges to heal up before the rest…. you’ll get them all back after the rest period and if your rest is interrupted you’ll be a full health. Since one healing surge equals 1/4 of your total HPs, you should only need to spend 4 surges. And every character will have at least that many per day.
@rekres:
This tactic (in similar form) is also used in 3/3.5E for spellcasters to dump all of their remaining healing spells before resting :)
@Kevin:
I don’t think the battlesystem was simplified at all. Though, decreasing the complexity of the grappling rules might count :S
Wow it’s been a minute since you posted a comment. Where have you been? Thanks for answering that for me. I just keep hearing all this stuff about the new battle system and how much more simple it is. But if the only simplification is on the grapples then whats the point? I’m still holding off on getting the 4th edition untill I know a little more about it. Hell I just got my first 3.5 not to long ago. I’m still playing AD&D 2nd edition. But now heres one, How do you get a newbie to stop viewing their charcter as a bunch of numbers and higher numbers means better character, and start viewing them as more then that?