Comments on: You Don't Have to be a Brain Surgeon to Build a Realistic Dungeon

By: Janna

Janna — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:54:06 +0000

@ Micah: The effect you’re describing sounds like the all-out chaotic brawls you get in Diablo and similar games. While it might make perfect sense for the dungeon’s inhabitants to rush the party in one big group, it’s probably not going to be a fun situation for the party or for the DM running the madness. I’d say the cure is suspending a bit of realism in order to make the game more fun and playable. You could always say the other groups of monsters were hanging back to guard prisoners, prepare a ritual, set an ambush, or what have you. :)

By: Chris Tregenza

Chris Tregenza — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:21:11 +0000

I have two litmus test questions that I apply to dungeons to see if they are realistic:

1) What do the monsters eat when there are no adventures to snack on?

2) Where are the toilets?

By: Toord

Toord — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 05:23:27 +0000

Absolutely agree with your friend’s point of view. Many of the dungeons I run, I simply cannot get my head off the thought of entering a dungeon Oozes jump at you, then some kobold ambush, then a trog overlord, then an ogre or a troll then the end boss is a necromancer with his own army of undead. Wait … what? To me the whole, the big picture needs to make sense in order for me to enjoy a night of questing. If all of a sudden I’m fighting a scorpion, then a troll then a bearded devil (barbazu) end boss … I get really annoyed and argumentative … ‘cuz it’s just doesn’t make ANY sense. Some people pay little attention at the monsters they fight other than to know which weapons or spells to use… for some of us … the enemies we fight in a dungeon have to fit the role and relationships withing the lore.

P.S.: How’s Expy such a cool dude when reds are usually pretty malevolent kinda dragons?

By: Derek

Derek — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:56:02 +0000

For me, the “element of realism” (in this case, something like a natural ecology for dungeons) doesn’t just “add to the fun.” Rather it is an absolute necessity among the ingredients it takes to make an enjoyable gaming experience. When I was 12, no…but that was long ago.

By: Micah

Micah — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:18:07 +0000

I constantly war with the reality vs game aspect of dungeons. I try hard to make dungeons that have reasonable ecologies, like the kobolds with minions example given above. Like you say, it’s not too hard to make something reasonable.

However, one other aspect that’s often overlooked is the defensive response of the dungeon inhabitants. Once someone starts attacking, it’s reasonable that the dungeon denizens will mount a full response immediately. So, instead of the PCs clearing it room by room, they should expect a coordinated response as soon as they’re detected.

This dramatically changes the nature of a dungeon crawl. It makes stealth much more important, and once you’re discovered, you can expect a massive battle. Should you survive, expect a reasonably easy stroll, perhaps with a straggler or two you find cowering somewhere.

What’s the cure for that?

By: Steve-o

Steve-o — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:03:21 +0000

We always used to play the random monster dungeon when we first started. Now I actually take the time to think up reasons as to why various creatures are there and make sure that they can all work together for some reason. (Even if it is a “lame” excuse) It makes more sense and is still fun, but occasionally I miss the old days when you just didn’t care and didn’t question the make-up of the dungeon design. I know there are plenty of old modules that didn’t make sense, but they were fun to play anyway.

Perhaps I’ll break out the Rules Cyclopedia for a good old fashioned one shot of random goodness.

Yeah, I know it doesn’t really go with the theme of the article. I do like having things make sense and logical, but sometimes you just need the goofiness as a break.

Oh, look there’s a Succubus living right next door to a Saytr, how nice…Do you think they have met yet? And look what’s coming down the hall, a unicorn. And the chamber down the hall is full of what color Slaad? great…. What do you mean there’s a Gelatinous cube coming down the hall behind us? That huge cavern that has absolutely no exists to the outside world has an ancient red dragon sleeping in it with his full treasure hoard. I wonder what is on the next level. Don’t these monsters seem a little high for our level of expertise?

By: Tommi

Tommi — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:49:09 +0000

There is little reason to have the creatures be allied. Given sufficient space to move in they might well be locked in a slow war of attrition; this also makes things much more interesting for the PCs, who can get involved and play them against each other and so on. Dungeons are mindless hack and slash only if the players are so inclined. A literary reference: Conan story called Red Nails