Comments on: Old vs. New School: The War for Control of Your Character http://www.dungeonmastering.com/tools-resources/old-vs-new-school-the-war-for-control-of-your-character The D&D Blog Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:54:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Tiorn http://www.dungeonmastering.com/tools-resources/old-vs-new-school-the-war-for-control-of-your-character#comment-9150 Tiorn Thu, 03 Sep 2009 20:14:34 +0000 http://www.dungeonmastering.com/?p=2097#comment-9150 @AlphaDean... I follow what you're saying. It was a big part of what I was initially saying on my first comment. Its about affordability. Some groups just can't afford to continue spending money to stay up to date with the official product line. With 1e/2/3.xe, that really wasn't a problem. I would say its really not a problem with 4e either, to be perfectly honest. To make up for financial shortcomings, groups will resort to their own creativity. And that WORKS. And back to the original post, the idea that so many additional purchased 4e books will force the DM to give up 'control' and flexibility to the players... is just absurd. If control and flexibility was really a problem before, then all of the additional books in 3.x, 2e, and even 1e proved that books alone could never be a solution. It takes the DM to make that decision and that same DM might very well decide to restrict 4e out the wazoo as well. Most of my playing days were in the 2e era, using a mix of 2e and 1e rules. Player control and flexibility was never an issue. NEVER. And I would strongly suspect that anyone who thought it really was an issue was playing in games ran by an overly strict DM. The 'just say yes' philosophy that is encouraged on several blogs doesn't have a chance of gaining traction with some DMs. A new set of books won't change that. @AlphaDean… I follow what you’re saying. It was a big part of what I was initially saying on my first comment. Its about affordability. Some groups just can’t afford to continue spending money to stay up to date with the official product line. With 1e/2/3.xe, that really wasn’t a problem. I would say its really not a problem with 4e either, to be perfectly honest. To make up for financial shortcomings, groups will resort to their own creativity. And that WORKS. And back to the original post, the idea that so many additional purchased 4e books will force the DM to give up ‘control’ and flexibility to the players… is just absurd. If control and flexibility was really a problem before, then all of the additional books in 3.x, 2e, and even 1e proved that books alone could never be a solution. It takes the DM to make that decision and that same DM might very well decide to restrict 4e out the wazoo as well. Most of my playing days were in the 2e era, using a mix of 2e and 1e rules. Player control and flexibility was never an issue. NEVER. And I would strongly suspect that anyone who thought it really was an issue was playing in games ran by an overly strict DM. The ‘just say yes’ philosophy that is encouraged on several blogs doesn’t have a chance of gaining traction with some DMs. A new set of books won’t change that.

]]> By: AlphaDean http://www.dungeonmastering.com/tools-resources/old-vs-new-school-the-war-for-control-of-your-character#comment-9148 AlphaDean Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:53:39 +0000 http://www.dungeonmastering.com/?p=2097#comment-9148 Ok guys (Recursion King, DnD Guy, Torin)Iwas really gonna leave this alon because the argument had sorted digressed but I actually found it interesting. The money grab was one of the biggest turn off s for me about the new edition. Well before they annouced no PDF's. Hell it was an issue I had with the 3.0/3.5 model also. I mean a new official product every month, that got a little costly, (I too am a old timer as far as this concerned)when I 1st started playing it was all about having all the books. I mean I go back to the days when it was a little white box. Then came the actual books and and we had to have them all. Now really what I'm getting at though is the idea of how what DnD Guy posted and has brought up equates into the old vs. new. Look at it, we old guys were used to the game being (relatively) affordable. I mean if we had a job we could afford to buy those books that came out once every six months to a year... and basically those books just added a little flavor to the world we built. At the end of the day we were in control and really had little need for official cannon to readily resolve conflicts. now with the inception of the digital age and the hunt for major money by coporate america, we have seen one of our major loves touched (and corrupted) by the stink of industry. It's the new school of thought. Let's milk the public till we can't milk em anymore. In many respects I have argued that the new school thought has nothing to do with flexabilty and more to do with varying offical options. Many of the guys in the industry today were from era. See when we wanted a new option we created it. Now the same guys that were extremely creative in the old days are the guys making money off of us in the new age. Us old guys who still feel the need, urge and desire to play this game are the ones who go out and buy the core books and do what we will. We are also the guys who are gonna be most vocal about the money grabbing corporate leeches that want to own our souls and wallet. Like I said in my earlier post I have a file on my comp that is a almagam of over 30 years of gaming for me. It's my tome of gaming and serves me well. So they get they same amount of money from me as always. I buy the core rules and a supplement here and there. See I'm old school. We adapt and over come, while the new school like to be spoon fed and led by the nose. Ok guys I'm joking, but I am old school. Ok guys (Recursion King, DnD Guy, Torin)Iwas really gonna leave this alon because the argument had sorted digressed but I actually found it interesting. The money grab was one of the biggest turn off s for me about the new edition. Well before they annouced no PDF’s. Hell it was an issue I had with the 3.0/3.5 model also. I mean a new official product every month, that got a little costly, (I too am a old timer as far as this concerned)when I 1st started playing it was all about having all the books. I mean I go back to the days when it was a little white box. Then came the actual books and and we had to have them all.

Now really what I’m getting at though is the idea of how what DnD Guy posted and has brought up equates into the old vs. new. Look at it, we old guys were used to the game being (relatively) affordable. I mean if we had a job we could afford to buy those books that came out once every six months to a year… and basically those books just added a little flavor to the world we built. At the end of the day we were in control and really had little need for official cannon to readily resolve conflicts.

now with the inception of the digital age and the hunt for major money by coporate america, we have seen one of our major loves touched (and corrupted) by the stink of industry. It’s the new school of thought. Let’s milk the public till we can’t milk em anymore.

In many respects I have argued that the new school thought has nothing to do with flexabilty and more to do with varying offical options. Many of the guys in the industry today were from era. See when we wanted a new option we created it. Now the same guys that were extremely creative in the old days are the guys making money off of us in the new age. Us old guys who still feel the need, urge and desire to play this game are the ones who go out and buy the core books and do what we will. We are also the guys who are gonna be most vocal about the money grabbing corporate leeches that want to own our souls and wallet.

Like I said in my earlier post I have a file on my comp that is a almagam of over 30 years of gaming for me. It’s my tome of gaming and serves me well. So they get they same amount of money from me as always. I buy the core rules and a supplement here and there. See I’m old school. We adapt and over come, while the new school like to be spoon fed and led by the nose. Ok guys I’m joking, but I am old school.

]]> By: The Recursion King http://www.dungeonmastering.com/tools-resources/old-vs-new-school-the-war-for-control-of-your-character#comment-9147 The Recursion King Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:05:17 +0000 http://www.dungeonmastering.com/?p=2097#comment-9147 *Project based should have been product based. Not sure what I was thinking when I typed that! *Project based should have been product based. Not sure what I was thinking when I typed that!

]]> By: The Recursion King http://www.dungeonmastering.com/tools-resources/old-vs-new-school-the-war-for-control-of-your-character#comment-9146 The Recursion King Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:04:37 +0000 http://www.dungeonmastering.com/?p=2097#comment-9146 I see your point, but at no point have I said it is a money grab. I just speculated that WOTC business model may change to subscription based (from project based) in the future... if the DDI became the primary way they were making money that is. If you do want my actual opinion, I think that 4E is too World of Warcraft like for my tastes (I currently play Labyrinth Lord with my group) but their forthcoming release of the Dark Sun campaign setting might well change my mind.. it seems well suited for the style of play that flows from the 4E rules, imho. I see your point, but at no point have I said it is a money grab. I just speculated that WOTC business model may change to subscription based (from project based) in the future… if the DDI became the primary way they were making money that is.

If you do want my actual opinion, I think that 4E is too World of Warcraft like for my tastes (I currently play Labyrinth Lord with my group) but their forthcoming release of the Dark Sun campaign setting might well change my mind.. it seems well suited for the style of play that flows from the 4E rules, imho.

]]> By: Tiorn http://www.dungeonmastering.com/tools-resources/old-vs-new-school-the-war-for-control-of-your-character#comment-9145 Tiorn Thu, 03 Sep 2009 04:28:42 +0000 http://www.dungeonmastering.com/?p=2097#comment-9145 @The Recursion King: I don't disagree with you (or DandDGuy either, for that matter). When it comes right down to it, the three of us are in agreement that the idea that 4e is better than 3.x/2e/1e because its more flexible for the players... is a bunch of BS. That's what the post was about though - flexibility for players in 4e, but not previously - not about the money-grab. You two can tie in the money angle all you want at just about any point. Its just off topic. @The Recursion King: I don’t disagree with you (or DandDGuy either, for that matter). When it comes right down to it, the three of us are in agreement that the idea that 4e is better than 3.x/2e/1e because its more flexible for the players… is a bunch of BS. That’s what the post was about though – flexibility for players in 4e, but not previously – not about the money-grab. You two can tie in the money angle all you want at just about any point. Its just off topic.

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